negotiators or atf or fbi. probably a team. >> they're working with him and talking with him and that's good. now the commanders, they've got to have on the tip of their mind, that madrid, spain incident. and they got to remember that that's where the terrorists, when the police came after they did their terrorist bombing campaign, when the police went in, they blew up and committed suicide. so if i was in charge, that case, madrid, would always be on the front of my mind. now, the caveat to that is, is he alone? because if he's alone, it's a barricaded suspect and we need to slow it down and talk and keep madrid on the forefront. if it's somebody in there with him, the whole dynamic changes. but the way we're looking now, this is very positive development. if he's isolated and he's alone. >> james cavanaugh, as has been said, it is person to person and the linkages between each person as you add, as we add the third person, the question is the third accomplice, what are the connections. roger cressey, we've be